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I was thinking about Jon and "daddy issues" and why it makes sense for Jon to have them despite not having issues around his father in the literal sense of it. and well, that's because Jon's issues are about his desire for approval from an authority figure and to feel wanted, not a burden. Elias could be that for him, an older authority figure. especially with him already acting paternalistic in the podcast itself. ultimately, it's about Jon never feeling accepted or wanted by his grandmother and he is very obviously seeking approval from Elias in s1 (who he also imitates! he even tries to sound like him!)

#jonelias
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obikindred

Youre right and you should say it actually! Its the very essence of the Jonelias Appeal

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archiverot

im really normal about this

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kairos-polaris
Original Poster

need Elias to put his hand on Jon's shoulder, look him in the eye and tell him he is so so proud of him. Jon would feel very normal about it

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archiverot

@kairos-polaris goes home and jerks off with both hands about it

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@kairos-polaris

More like this

Ok i understand that, as a fandom person, you're going to analyse much more about a character and in depth and for so long you might get wrapped into specific feelings about them. And especially if the canon didnt give you that much about them you're going to build a lot from those incessant thoughts until you have your whole entire story in your head.

But even so, trying as hard as possible not to be influenced by my own thing, how are the writers having such a different view of jonah magnus as i end up with?

Im just kinda baffled because if... you wanted to write the character you seem to believe he is now, you.... didnt at the start. This is not the character on the page. Yes hes evil yes he wants power yes he relishes in suffering yes he used Jon yes in the old days he let his friends die no just because you were a rich guy in the 1800s doesnt mean you...have to have been a caricature of a rich guy in the 1800s?? Am i insane??

Anyway. All this fanfiction and Georgie and Celia dont even get a proper angsty thing out of it.

The thing is, I'm not saying I'm particularly against Jonah being rich, because seeing all the people he frequented in the 1800s, he must have been -- and I also assume that when you're opening an Institute at that time to study the paranormal and your friends only treat it as your little Special Jonah Excentricity, you must have enough money that you'll only get teased and not fully judged for it.

It's just that, unless my memory is severely failing me, it's also obvious that Jonah was all-in when it came to the Institute; that his friends were also telling him to chill a bit and to relax and not work as much. And I feel it's so much more interesting to have him be an academic losing himself to the study of fear (being enough of a recluse that his friends want to coax him out, and yet still good enough at the social game that he HAS friends coaxing him out to begin with) than just a... random Rich Son owning Mills who Just So happen on the Side to have the Institute.

(And I'm not even against Jonah, as a rule, being a snob about social classes either? Like. I don't buy it fully, but being from a higher social statut WOULD, at least early on, give him so biases which: fair enough I guess, even if it's not really... visible in text at least in TMA for me.)

Also like, actually, erasing all of TMA from memory, it's also kinda weird even if we just consider the Protocol World? I KNOW they didn't say it was Jonah's diary when we had the episode, but like, please???? This was so much like Jonah it would be absurd to invent a whole other character for it. So i've got to assume that whatever "official" information Georgie found on the Institute and its founders are just like. what it is. an "official", easy story to digest, that does not reflect the truth whatsover of what happened to Jonah. If anything, STILL not knowing the full truth about him WOULD be the one consistent thing we get about Jonah. Like who knows. Maybe he had a cousin with the same name. Maybe trans Jonah is real, Jonah Magnus was the first born son who died and Jonah was like "stealing the name for me btw".

Anyhow. Whatever. Fanfiction of fanfiction. i need to stop thinking about this.

jonah magnus

Maybe this is a hot take?

I think Elias wouldn't look evil. Like if you were in a room with him for too long maybe you would get a vibe, but in my head he is very unassuming.

Nothing is better than seeing newbies start woe.begone and going wdym there's cowboys and moon conspiracies and murderous poker games

Jonelias tag seems disappointingly popular so here's my once per account yelling at the shippers post

Jon and Elias' relationship is founded on a sense of mutual objectification. They both see eachother as a means to an end.

Elias views Jon as a tool necessary to complete the watchers crown without getting himself to screw up by the magic shit (at least I think I never watched season four). He probably thought Jonathan's isolationist tendencies and variety of strong friendships made him both afraid to rely on people and having a lot of people he cares about. This is frankly reversed with Jon's actual character- being wildly extroverted (+having the Eye powers) to the result of having a lot of friends and associates, and being emotionally dissociated enough to lack any real connection with those people nor a genuine care for their lives or his own. Elias' level of affection and/or distaste towards Jon is entirely dependent on how well Jon is fitting into his stupid little machinations at the given moment.

Jon's admiration of Elias is just because Elias is what he wants to be- someone who has a respectable job relating to investigating the paranormal. As he finds out more about Elias and realizes the various things Elias weighs him down with (murder allegations [leitner], magical death pact, coworker and platonic relationships he has to maintain because of said magical death pact) his distaste gradually increases. I think there is still an underlying sense of respect that has the same base as the initial admiration, Elias' effective usage of power and mastery over paranormal stuff. All that being said, I do concede that when Jon showed up at her apartment and asked to stay there for a bit Georgie probably did assume he and Elias were fucking under the table and HR found out

Honestly i really support your hate for martin. I happen to (irrationally) like him and lwky border on hate at the same time. i like your binary nature.

thank you i also like my binary nature 🫰

There's a different Season 4 out there where Jon, desperate to find proof that being a Fully Fledged Avatar that Eats People Trauma can still, somehow, be good in some fashion, doesn't find Fanshawe's letter first and therefore immediately concludes, with no shred of doubt (and with endless self-loathing because he's mirroring, his boyfriend is ghosting him, nobody is happy he's back, and he's like few episodes away from jumping in a coffin being like 'eh, it ever works or i die') that Jonah Magnus was an evil man all along and there was never anything good to the Institute.

Maybe instead of he finds a letter from Jonah to Smirke that tells the fall of yet another of their friends, maybe a letter that, on paper, is perfectly polite, but that Jon reads with the undertone of anger and fear (you said balance is the key but prevention is doing nothing we need more knowledge, we need to understand more, Robert-). Maybe, if we want to keep it at "we never hear from Jonah directly" (which does also have sexy implications, find) he finds a letter from yet another friend who actually recalls WHAT happened the day Smirke told his buddies about all this, that shows that Jonah immediately was with Smirke on the whole "balance thing", at least on paper.

In any case, what he finds is not a downright "oh, Jonah bad" and Jon wants to believe SO badly that he can still do some good; also he's obsessive and doesn't know when to quit, as we know <3 so he just keeps. finding new letters to read, which, of course, parallels his own journey, and so, of course, when we reach the final, actual reveal of Elias being Jonah, it's just. oh. Oh.

(Side note: got distracted by the end of this post because I was reminded again that, genuinely, when this podcast is good it's brillant, and Elias going "Exactly where they've always been, Martin. Watching over my institute." is just. so. fucking good. what a delicious, perfect, satisfying reveal. I adore him so much. It's just so perfectly dramatic. that whole scene!! THat whole episode. god. anyway. what was i saying? i don't remember)

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